In this episode, I speak with one of the topleadership minds in the world, Dov Baron.
Dov Baron is “The Dragonist”, Inc. Magazine Top 100 Leadership Speaker, #1 Fortune 500 Podcast Host, Entrepreneur Magazine contributor, Loyalty Authority. Guiding us in how to recognize and nurture dragons (the top talent) hidden in our organizations. A Dragon Leader is not a position, it’s someone who is always pushing to improve and wants those they serve to reach their full potential.
Dov’s humor and no-BS style are contagious. As a master storyteller, he is considered to be the leading authority on actualized leadership. Actualized leadership means getting the result you set out to achieve in the most meaningful manner.
Working with diverse leaders and executive teams, Dov filters common bonds to create Fiercely Loyal cultures. You can’t achieve loyalty without “meaning” and talent only stay when they feel they are a part of something larger than themselves.
Besides being a bestselling author of One Red Thread and Fiercely Loyal: How High Performing Companies Develop and Retain Top Talent, Dov has been named one of Inc. Magazine’s Top 100 Leadership Speakers to Hire and as one of the Top 30 Global Leadership Guru's. He has spoken to the United Nations, The World Management Forum (Iran), The New York National Speakers Association, and The Servant Leadership Institute.
In June 1990, while free rock climbing, Dov fell approximately 120 feet and landed on his face. The impact shattered most of the bone structure of his face. After ten reconstructive surgeries, no external evidence remains; however, this experience wasn’t just life-changing, it has been completely transformational. Dov shares how Dragons are born in fire, experiences that could potentially destroy you, instead can birth purpose, passion, and hunger to champion others to nurture the Dragon Fire in ourselves, our families, our communities, and our companies.
Dov believes the world needs more "Dragon Leaders" committed to living their purpose, standing in their truth, and empowering others to find their fire and do the same.
Earl Breon 0:01
Hello everyone, my name is Earl Breon and you are listening to the burden of command Podcast. I'm a former active duty United States Marine with over 25 years of coaching and mentoring experience across the military, civilian federal service and private sectors. I'm a lifelong learning enthusiast when it comes to leadership. And this podcast is just an extension of that pursuit. My goal with each episode would be to bring in great content to leaders across all spectrums of the word leadership. Leadership is a complicated function. You are dealing with complex people, on complex teams, in complex organizations, in complex situations, you have to know how to interact with each one of these elements in the appropriate way at the appropriate time in order to achieve success. lead your team well and it's a glorious thing fell in any one aspect and it will be disastrous. This dear listener is the burden of Khamenei. In this inaugural episode, I'm pleased to bring you just such a person. Today's guest has been named as one of Inc Magazine's Top 100 leadership speakers. He hosts pursuing deep greatness with Dove Baron on Roku TV. And he hosts the number one podcast for Global Fortune 500 listeners titled dog barons leadership and loyalty show, as can be found on iTunes and radio stations across the United States. He is the man who fell to earth the viceroy of Vancouver, the prince of purpose. He is Mr. Dov Baron, Don, welcome to the show.
Dov Baron 1:44
Thank you. Well, that was awesome.
Dov Baron 1:49
Prince of purpose and the viceroy of what was it? The Viceroy of Vancouver, Viceroy of Vancouver. I think I might have done that put on my business. Thank you.
Earl Breon 2:02
Well, again, you know, thank you for your time. You know, that was just a few of the things that dive is done. I could have spent this entire podcast talking about all of his accomplishments. But you know, again, appreciate you carving out some time in your day to be with us.
Dov Baron 2:15
My absolute pleasure. I'm excited to be honored to serve.
Earl Breon 2:19
Yes, absolutely. So. Okay, so in the opening there, you heard a little bit about my thoughts on what the burden of command is, when you hear that term? What does it mean to you?
Dov Baron 2:33
You know, I even at the title of it, I was thinking that, wow, that's a very interesting title, the burden of command. And I think that the burden, the word burden implies suffering, and I don't believe in suffering, I believe in choice. And I think that there is, I think before you can even get to the burden of command, you have to have the burden of choice. And the burden of choice is self accountability. So, you know, it's my life, I'm living it. And if I don't like what's happening, then I am responsible for that. And I think that before you can look at commending others, one has to commend one's own life. And that starts with the willingness to accept the responsibility for one's own choices. So before I think about the burden of command, I think about how many people refuse the burden of self command, self accountability, self responsibility. And it's actually easier to have it on someone else than it is to have it on oneself.
Earl Breon 3:40
That is a as a great way to look at it. And you know, I think that is the one thing hearing you talk about, that is probably the one thing if I had personally, if I had to identify what separates great leaders from managers, it's that exactly right. Great leaders have really made that decision, whether in a conscious or subconscious level to become leaders, whereas most managers that we think of is kind of like the stereotypical the mean manager that doesn't have time for people they've had it kind of forced upon them with. Would you agree with that?
Dov Baron 4:18
I think that they see it as they've been forced upon them. I don't believe that, but I think that they believe that. So yeah, but as you said, a great leader is, is you know, I mean, it's such a cliche to say the buck stops here. But it's just because it's a cliche, doesn't mean it's not true. And I think great leaders understand that, that I am responsible, you know, when we go in and work with leadership teams and an organization's I say, what is the problem? And they'll tell me, you know, well, we have a problem with keeping our team loyal engagement, you know, that we don't really, you know, whatever it might be, there's a million things right. And I say right I'm gonna go while I go, You're the problem. The only mean is that if there's a problem, if we don't take it on the nose, that level of leadership, nothing's getting fixed, because you're always looking for somebody else to blame and blame, shame, and put it on. But if you take it on as first class responsibility, which is like, Okay, if I was put in this role, I was put in this role to make a difference. You see, I think that where it falls down the burden, if you want to use that term, the burden of leadership is that you have to be willing to take it on the nose, we're all willing to take the glory. But will you take it on the nose, which means to say, I am responsible for this, I am. And the sad thing about it is, if it's a failure, I'm responsible, if it's a success, we are responsible. And that doesn't feed the ego very nicely. We kinda like the ego, we'd like it to be the other way around. But if it's a success, we worked this, we made this happen. If it's a failure, I own it, and I'm responsible for doing it. But if I, you know, it's so much easier to push it off. So the real burden is in the willingness to take it on to say, I don't want to, but I'll hold I'll hold this, I will hold this because that is what I'm here to do. That's what I'm paid to do. That's what I'm held into position to do.
Earl Breon 6:30
Yeah, man. And I love that because I tell you, one of the things that I say that when working with clients, whether it's speaking or one on one is, you know, teams succeed, leaders fail. And I get so much pushback with it. Like, like, I've had people telling me that I'm fucking nuts. That it's not my fault. My team didn't do this. And like you just said, who put the team together?
Dov Baron 6:59
And you'll hear well, I didn't you know, I won't join on this team. Okay, great. Terrific. And so are you. You're powerless to change the team, where your power? And they go? Yes, I have to stay with the team. I got great. Were you powerless in turning them around? Well, yeah, they were stuck. No, no, you had that ability. You had that ability to step up and change it. You have the ability to, to engage the people in a way they've not been engaged before to bring them on board. And that's what people don't grasp. They don't want to grasp that.
Earl Breon 7:37
Yeah, and it's exactly it's the talent assessment. Right. You know, sometimes you have a fantastic team, just whoever was there before you if you're in a position, like you just mentioned, they didn't know how to assess the talent and put the people in the right places to succeed. You know, I saw this a lot in the Marines, you know, I can't tell you how many times just out of sheer pure torturous happiness that only a Marine Staff NCO can appreciate. I seen. I seen people try to give the small and skinny as Guy responsibility over the 50 Cow. Okay, well, that doesn't work. You need a big person to handle a 50 caliber machine. Yeah. You put that person in any other position? Success, you put them beyond their means and their capabilities. It's disastrous for everyone. And that happens a lot, doesn't it?
Dov Baron 8:35
Well, I mean, it's the Peter Principle. And when we move into cobra, Peter Principle says that people rise to the, to the level of their incompetence. So I think that we should always be pushing people beyond their comfort zone. Absolutely. I think that, that we should push ourselves beyond our comfort zone, but we have to have support in it. And if you are 400 pounds, and you want to be a ballerina, well, there's gonna be a lot of work out here. Right? Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it possible if you're 400 pounds and 50 only as a hobby, but not as a professional career. So you know, there's a real important piece to taking a genuine look at who I am, and what I'm willing to commit to in order to do the thing. And people do amazing things. We've all seen those very motivational videos of people who have no arms and no legs, who dress themselves and drive to work and do our own, you know, and dance. I mean, it's like, wow, like, what frickin excuse do you have because it isn't good enough compared to that, but at the same time, that person also knows he's never going to be a pro footballer. So you know, it's, it's this dance of of shifting yourself to such a massive The bigger vision of yourself while holding the reality of what is going on. So if I don't have legs, it's not likely that I'm going to be a pro football player. But hey, I might be an Olympian runner, because that happened. But who would have said that was possible before. But the difference between that guy, and another guy who also had his legs amputated, who said I can't run is that he said he couldn't run. And then even if they both said they could run, what was the level of commitment to making it happen? The guy who got to the Olympics, the level of commitment to making it happen, was obviously massively different. And that's what we have to get.
Earl Breon 10:45
Yes, and again, I love it, because it's so have you ever seen the movie Rudy?
Dov Baron 10:52
I haven't. Okay, what it is, okay.
Earl Breon 10:55
So so everybody watches that movie and sees it as a big motivational Yay. Good job, Rudy. And I was that way too, until I actually heard an interview with Joe Montana. You know, Notre Dame along course, they had to ask him about routing. And he said something that light was like a light bulb. He goes, you know, Rudy is the most glorified story of failure that's ever been made. And my ears perked up, because I'm like, what he goes, think about it for a second, look how much time and effort Rudy wasted to get on the field for one play. And he left his school, his studies suffer for it. He was good at math, he was good in this. Imagine if he'd applied that same level of effort to the things that he had the natural talent and gifts for, versus trying to swim upstream into something he didn't. Now you just pointed out, there's some value in having dreams and pushing, but you got to be grounded in realism. Is it something that is actually within reach? Don't just let people tell you no, just to tell you no, but be realistic. Do the self assessment piece, right is, as you mentioned, if you're 400 pounds, want to be a ballerina, is that really going to happen? Okay. There's things that you can put in place lose, you know, 250 pounds, or more than maybe, but yeah, so I like what you said there, I really do.
Dov Baron 12:19
Well, I think that, you know, this is the the bullshit that we live in, which is absolutes. You know, people you can do anything? No, you can't. No, you can't. But can you do far more than you think you're capable of? Absolute free can literally. So you know, when people say, oh, you know, follow your dreams, you can do anything. Holy shit. Holy shit. If you can't read, and you cannot write. And your dream is to write a novel. You know, you might have a couple of challenges that, but is it possible? Yes. Can you learn to read? Yes. Can you learn to write? Yes. Can you find other ways to write using, you know, a dictation? Yes, there's all kinds of ways to do it. But you're not going to sit down and write this. This magnum opus, when you've never learned to read or write, you're going to have to go through other steps first, and we live in a society that is all or nothing, you can do anything at all, or you can't do anything at all. And at the same time, we don't have because we're so instant gratification driven, we don't have the frickin patience to say, here's what I want to do. You were a Marine, what kind of shape were you in when you went in? Like, you know, when you signed up when you when you went and signed on the dotted line?
Earl Breon 13:47
Shitty shape, I mean, on right shitting shape
Dov Baron 13:50
shinny shape was shaped did you have to be into graduate really good shape, right? And because you wanted to be a Marine, you went, Okay, I got to do that. But if you had to stay committed to being in shitty shape, it wouldn't have happened. And this is what people don't understand. Everybody wants everything now. And the thing about it is you can have a amazing things you can go far beyond your what you believe is your present capabilities. But the question is, are you willing to commit to it? Or are you willing to just hey, you know, it's not that big a deal. You know, so for me when I when I you know, as you know, my work is, you know, very well my work is based around purpose. Everybody following their purpose, finding that true purpose that really lies within and we've all got a million reasons to not follow it. It's easy to be complacent. It's easy to say, you know, it's not that bad. It's all that you know, all those things, but the truth of the matter is, when it comes down to it is are you one willing to commit. If you're going to follow your purpose that is going to take a commitment, because you will have to give up safety, you will have to give up comfort, you will have to dedicate yourself to something. And that becomes your Northstar. That's the thing that's always pulling you forward. But we can't do that. And be complacent. It just doesn't work.
Earl Breon 15:24
Oh, yeah, man, you just went on on a good tear there. Because, yes, I think I got him in order here with the, if you believe it, you can achieve it crap. Like, that kills me because they missed the part about if you believe it, and are willing to work hard enough for it, you can achieve it. Exactly. And and yeah, so the Marines thing, you know, the seals get credit for it. But we had this eight in boot camp, it's like get comfortable being uncomfortable. Because uncomfortability is where growth happens. It kills me how many people are more, it's easier, being comfortable, and sailing along in life than it is being a little uncomfortable and seeing growth. And, man when you get comfortable being uncomfortable and and curveballs in life, don't matter anymore. You can handle those you can, you can do the things that you need to do succeed to succeed. Life just goes to a whole nother level. And I wish I wish we could get more people on that track. I really do.
Dov Baron 16:35
Well, again, you know, people are very much wanting quick fixes. We you know, you have to think about it for a second, right? How do you get a round of applause. You prepare, you prepare your presentation. You You know you rehearse it, you do your research, you do your background, and then you stand on the stage and you speak for half an hour an hour and you get and maybe you get a standing ovation. Maybe you don't but maybe you do. But you know people think you know, you got a standing ovation because you delivered half an hour. Now I got a standing ovation because I I have 30 years of background of research of practice to get that. But people see that and I was the same when I started. We see it and we go, oh, I want that. And I want it right now. Well, there's 30 years of practicing that, you know, if I go up against David Goggins, and I try to, you know, a fitness contest, I'm gonna die. Right? Because he's prepped for that. I'm not. But there are things in my life, I'm prepped for that. Goggins is not right. But the difference is if Goggins said I'm going to do it, he would put in the discipline, that commitment to to make it happen. So you have to realize in a world of social media where I like it. So if you think about it, 10 likes is a round of applause. Yeah. And that that hits us at a serotonin level in exactly the same way. So why would people wait, they don't want to wait, they're impatient, I understand that. I have complete compassion for it and understand it, but it's not frickin real. And if you want to really get to weigh is whatever that is that you want to get to. What that means is, you have got to put in the work. And nobody wants to say that, but you gotta put in the work. I wish it was different. I do.
Earl Breon 18:30
Know I. And the thing about it is is is a lot of people listening to this. And I know this is a passion point of yours as well. But a lot of people listening to this are going to hear that and think, yeah, he's talking about millennials. Now, this, this is something that's been around for generations. Colin Powell tells a fantastic story about when he was a lieutenant. And he goes into the officers mess. And he sees a general sitting there. And he's like, Well, I'm gonna go ask the general for some advice. So he asked the general he's like, sir, he goes, how do you get to become a general? So the general looks at him and says, you wake up early ever earlier than everybody else every morning, you make sure your uniform looks better than everybody else each day, you know your job better than everybody else. And you are the most squared away person at your job that you can be. Colin Powell looks and goes. Sounds pretty easy. That's how you get to become General. He's a no son. That's how you get to become captain. Once you get promoted, it starts all over again. And it starts over again, every single time and that eventually, you might get to become General. Huh? Yeah. And I love that.
Dov Baron 19:40
Yeah, it's it's, but you see, this is the thing that you and I understand. And, and, you know, when you talk about the burden of leadership, this is what the real burden of leadership is. The burden of leadership is Kaizen is the understanding of constant commitment to upgrading to call constant commitment to making it better, whatever it is, particularly if it is you. And that's the burden. That's the burden of leadership, that's the burden of authority is if you're going to be good at it, you're going to make the difference, then you have to commit every single day to upgrading. And most people don't want to do that most people want to get the position like, you know, like the general center, Colin Powell. And then they want to go Okay, so now I got the position, I can show up a bit late. I don't have to press my uniform, I don't really have to bother so much. Yeah.
Earl Breon 20:41
Well, yeah. And that's a good you know, and that's one reasons why I chose this title, the burden of command because, you know, it's something it's going to mean something different to everybody. And it's, it's all encompassing, you're right, part of the burden command is how you lead yourself, part of the burden of command is when you have to, as I said, In the beginning, when you have to make those decisions that are going to put the people that you love, because I truly believe you have to love people to lead them. So you're going to have to pursue people that you'd love in harm's way, you know, whether that is making a risky decision in your business, or if you're in the military, listening to this, putting people out in the line of fire, those are things that are going to tear at you, every time you make a decision. If they succeed, you're going to get as you mentioned, that hit of serotonin and you're going to be flying high, if they fail, you're gonna get hit right in the frickin snout, and it's going to hurt. But that burden that wheeling burden that you have to willingly take on, you know, it's all of that. And I truly believe, and I think you'll agree with me on this, that the one thing that a lot of leaders, and maybe they realize it, but they don't realize it completely is the decisions you make in the office, whatever that office looks like, do have a lasting impact that carries out into the personal lives of the people that work with you and for you.
Dov Baron 22:08
Couldn't agree more. You know, when we go into work with a company, one of the first things I will say is, if this doesn't impact your home life, if this doesn't change the way you are with your family and the way they are with you, we have not done our job. Because there is no separation. That's all there is to it. And you know, further to your point. One of the things I say in our work is that, look, if you think leadership is about popularity, you're in the wrong gig, this is not what it's about. You know, Moses led the Jews out of out of Egypt, took them across the desert. And when he went up to Mount Sinai to have a chat with God, while he was up there, they were partying and thinking about how they could bump him off. Because they were pissed off that he was dragging them through the desert, very get them out of slavery. And some of them were talking about how to go back to slavery. That, for me is a powerful metaphor of leadership. Just because you lead something, somebody away from what is painful, does not mean they will be loyal to you. Yeah, hope everybody got that. That is a burden of command. Just because you lead them out of something that was painful, something they said they wanted out of, does not mean they will like you or be loyal to you. Because people miss the familiar. It's the law of the ego. And the ego says same is safe. And oh my god, this is not the same. This is not safe. Take me back to the misery. There's a barren mooching housing movie Monty Python movie, where they talk about this person who has been swallowed by at least like Jonah, and a bunch of others have been swallowed by this whale. They're inside the whales belly stinks in that it's all about how horrible is and finally one day, somebody feeds the whale something and they get burped out of the spout, and they swim off to the shore. And when they get to the shore, they meet an enemy, and they go, smelly fish, I want to go back to the smelly fish. And it's just how that's what leadership is. Just because you showed somebody a better way and took them out of that pain does not mean they will like you. It does not mean you will be popular. They end and by the way to come to your point. In the context of what I just said to the ego the same is safe. Therefore, if you're leading them away from the familiar pain into something else, you are leading them into danger. That brain is going to fire off. Danger, danger. That's why you're not going to be popular.
Earl Breon 24:54
Yeah, and like he just said that's okay, that's part of it. Oh, serious. Yeah. Cool. It is it's a growth point for you. I mean, and I think how you handle those situations, right? Yeah, you just bend over backwards, you help this person out, you got them out of a sticky situation? Or, or maybe you just sponsored them at work and put a bunch of your organizational capital at risk by backing them, and then they turn around and, and shit on you for it. Okay, fine. You learn something from that right? Or you should have learned something for that. And he should. Exactly. And anytime you can do that, again, the Kaizen that's another piece of growth, that's another piece of of, of your experiences that should be able to be applied and make you a better leader going forward.
Dov Baron 25:44
Hmm, yeah. Well, that's absolutely.
Earl Breon 25:47
So. So in the beginning, one of the nicknames I use for you there was was the prince of purpose. And we've kind of talked about that a little bit. And I want to give you an opportunity to kind of unpack that, because I had the opportunity to sit through your, your purpose course. And I would like other people to become aware of it and have the same opportunity that I did. So talk about the one red thread, and the course you built around that.
Dov Baron 26:19
Thank you, appreciate you asking and giving me that opportunity is there. So one red thread is one of my latest books, you can find it on Amazon in paperback, and also as an e book. And it's discovering the purpose that is already woven into your life, people often think that their passion is their purpose, it's a very different thing. And this is why purpose has always been with you. And getting connected to that purpose is what transforms your life. And it's what will give you the grit to keep you going when things are not going so well. Because there's this, as I said, there's this wonderful north star that pulls you through, we built a course around that the one restaurant is the opening to it. But the course is now called all at once, you can find out about all at once, by going to my website, which is full Monty leadership.com, you go to full Monty leadership.com. And you go to products and programs, you'll find, you'll actually find the access point to one red thread, you'll also find purposes missing piece, which is how to build a purpose driven organization. And of course, to to actually find your purpose and be guided through it. You can go to all at once, which is in there as well. So they're all there, it's all available for you. And you can, you know, I hope that you have gotten a lot out of this talk this time with Earl and I and you know, and I want to encourage you because this is the inaugural episode, I want to encourage you to go to iTunes rate review and subscribe to the show because Earl is committed not only to his own growth, but to serving the growth of others and doing what it takes to help you become a better leader in every possible way. So go that rate review, subscribe to the show. Let's share it with your friends. let other people know about this show. Let him know what you got out of this. And you can email me personally D O V email@example.com. Write to me, tell me what you got out of the show. You can see CLM this, tell us what you got out of this show? What are you going to do with it because inflammation is what the whole net Dona transformation comes from application, put it in action, write to us, tell us what you're going to do with it. You can write to me if there's something I can personally help you with. I'm here to serve. If you think about when maybe you want to work with me privately, or want to bring me into work with your company, your organization or your conference. All those things are possible, you just write to me on that email address. But more than anything, I want to know what you got out of this and what you are going to do with it.
Earl Breon 29:01
Yeah, absolutely. And I would just double that. Thank you for the for the action items there for people to go rate and review the show. I really appreciate that. And I just want to because you've said this a couple of times, and I really want listeners to latch on to this. The sense of purpose and the North Star. You know, one of the things that I see that a lot of people do with that is is they focus and this is a good way to focus but they focus on what it means you're driven towards right. But I also tell people, the kind of the adverse side of that coin is it also gives you a filter for what you shouldn't be doing. You know, I always tell people when you find your purpose when you find that goal in life, you know, when you have a goal you should ask yourself with everything that you do. Does this move me closer? closer to my goal? If the answer is yes, do it. If the answer is no, then let's start asking other questions before we get to let's commit. And so having that purpose, knowing what it is going through dogs course, and I highly recommend that course. You know, I went into it as somebody who already had a fairly good idea of what my sense of purpose really was in life. But the questions the way Dov leads the course the the discussion that is had by him and your fellow course, members, it's invaluable. And even if you were sitting here right now saying, Oh, I know what my purpose is, I don't need that. Take the class anyways, you're gonna walk away from it with an even deeper sense of what your purpose is in a better understanding. And you will appreciate everything that you went through a promise.
Dov Baron 30:59
Thank you so much for that. Oh, I sincerely appreciate that. And it was it was a pleasure having you in that because like, like we talked about, it's about being, you know, many people who can't Well, several people who've been in have said, Oh, yeah, I'm pretty good. I know my purpose. And I've said, Oh, my God, now I really get it is it's a refinement, it's a clarity, but I actually get why it's my purpose. You know, Simon Sinek says, Start with Why. And what people don't understand is that's actually not your purpose. Your purpose is underneath that. And so when you actually go, oh, this is why it's my purpose. Now I'm now I realized that this is a difference I have to make in the world. That actually, this is why people don't understand your passion is for you. Your purpose is something you give to the world. And it's not done in a altruistic, it's, because that's a lie anyway, it's not done in an altruistic way. It's done in a way that allows you to heal yourself and bring something to the world that is spectacular. That leaves you fulfilled, not just successful. That's why it's so powerful.
Earl Breon 32:12
Yeah, 100% 100%. And it is, I mean, that's just a great word for it powerful. And to kind of tie things back in, you know, if you're somebody whose purpose in life is to be in leadership roles, that is something that is not mentioned very beginning yet that you feel a draw, fill a drawing to, it's a calling of yours, you want to willingly take on that mantle, that that burden of command, knowing the purpose, knowing why is going to be instrumental because as we talk, you know, there's a lot of great things about leadership, a lot of great things. But there's also a lot of heartache. There's a lot of sleepless nights, there's a lot of agonizing over decisions you've made. Being in tune with that purpose, knowing that it is the right course of action for you, and why is the right course of action for you is going to help you be able to fulfill that I mean, I can think of no better and yes, I'm going to use him because I'm a Marine, I'm a little bit biased. But Jim Mattis, general Mad Dog Mattis, there's probably no person on the face of the planet that from an early age was in tune with his sense of purpose like that, man. I mean, if you study his life, if you read about him, he knew where he was going. So much to the point, where at one point in his life, he had to choose between being a leader of Marines, and being a married man. And he chose being a leader of Marines, because he knew that was his sense of purpose, anything else would not be alive that he wanted to live.
Dov Baron 33:53
Right? There, they're, again, not back to the burden of command, right? That higher choice. And the truth is that most people don't want to make that they want to make the easy choice. But it is the burden of command that you make a higher choice, a choice that is so purpose driven, that you know, there is no other way for you to live. And that's what I'm saying about that being the real burden. It's like, actually, this is how I have to live. When I met my wife, I said, Listen, you got to know this about me. This is a funny story that my wife tells us, you know, what, when we when we fell in love, and I said, you know, I think he had a personal weapon the rest of my life with and she's like, Oh, you think that's it? No, I actually am pretty sure. And she said, Oh, yeah, I said, But I gotta tell you something. She goes what I go, you're never going to be number one. And she's like, What do you mean? Is there somebody else's ID? No, no, it's not about being somebody else. But you're never going to be number one. She goes, Well, what's number one? I said, the divine my Can I action to the universal force that some people call God. But that's number one. She goes, Okay, I guess I could be number two to God. I think go. Sorry, not number two. So yours. Okay. What's number two? I said my relationship with the divine. Us. Okay, three sucks, but okay, I can see, you know, I can live with that said, Sorry, number three. She goes, What's number three? Then? I said number three? Is my purpose, fulfilling the purpose of why I came to this planet? That's number three. She's like, am I at least four? I said, No, I'm sorry, by not four. She goes, What's number four, I said my relationship to myself my growth and development. And I said, she goes, I can make it number five. And this again, she said she was pissed off. And then she said about six months later, she goes, Oh, my God, I've been number one in people's lives. And I realized now how much better it is to be five, with this with this system. Because I see if we're working backwards, if I don't have a relationship with myself, I'm not a nice person to live with. If I'm not following my purpose, I'm a miserable bastard. If I don't have a relationship with that, which is greater than me, if I don't have faith in something greater than myself, all my relationship to it all my relationship to the purpose I came here to fulfill. I'm not a leader. And if I'm not a leader, I'm a miserable boss. Did you don't want to be married to me?
Earl Breon 36:47
Well, you know that that's a great story. And it's, we hear this a lot, right? And it makes sense when you think about it. If you don't put the oxygen mask on yourself first, how can you help anybody else? Right.
Dov Baron 37:00
And the problem is that that's a cliche that people don't understand. There's Oh, yeah, that's right. And then they then they put the oxygen oxygen mask on everybody else.
Earl Breon 37:09
Right? Yeah, no, that's powerful. That's, that's, that's very powerful. Thank you for sharing that story. And, you know, as we look to kind of wrap up this, this first episode, a lot of good meat, a lot of great content here. I really, really appreciate everything you've shared here. I always like to leave with with one question, right? And this is probably gonna be the question I ask everybody. And it's sure. With everything, we've talked about the burden of command and all that, and I think I might know where you're going. But maybe you'll surprise me. If you had one piece of executable advice for any leader, whether they're currently in leadership role formally, or they're working their way to if you get one piece of advice that you want them to take away more than anything else, what would it be?
Dov Baron 37:59
Well, I'm probably not going to surprise you. If that's the case. Find your purpose. And what I mean by that is not your passion, but your purpose. Find out what is bigger than you. Your purpose has got to be bigger than you find out what matters more than you know, to use a military term, what is the hill you're willing to die on? What is it that matters more than anything on this planet, to you, find your purpose. And in finding that purpose, just to help you. I want to help you right now to start that journey. Go looking the place you don't want to look, go look at your pain, the place you avoid looking as your pain, but your pain contains your purpose. Get started. And you will become a true leader. And you can from that place, embrace the burden of command.
Earl Breon 39:05
It's a great way to close it out again. Thank you very much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. It's been, it's been great for me, I can only imagine what it's been like for our listeners. So thank you.
Dov Baron 39:16
Thank you so much. It's been such an honor to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to serve. And I'm honored and grateful that you asked me to be part of the show and certainly to be part of the inaugural show. So thank you.
Earl Breon 39:27
Absolutely. I couldn't think of anybody else to to be the first guest so. So everybody again, Dov as mentioned some ways to reach out to him. I'll have that stuff in the show notes for you. You have been listening to the burden of command podcast. And if you have an idea of somebody that you would like to hear me interview on the burden of command podcast hit me there. If you have any feedback for me. To get to dive you can email me there, email him directly he left his information for you. And if Nothing else. Definitely go and subscribe to dogs podcast as well. It is fantastic. I don't use Roku, but I've got to get this thing up and running to see his TV show. So yeah, thank you, everybody for, for for tuning in and listening. If you do, if you would get over there and rate me like Tom said that really matters on getting seen in iTunes so rate and leave messages let me know how I'm doing. Thank you very much for tuning in this inaugural episode and I look forward to talking with everybody again in episode two. All right, thanks for tuning in. If you have any comments or questions for me or my guest, or you would like to suggest a future guest send them to me at firstname.lastname@example.org Be sure to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. I look forward to speaking with you again. In the next episode.